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	<title>Comments on: Avoidable Contact #17: Cheating Nissan, Bitter Porsche.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/</link>
	<description>Covering the latest in Automotive News, Events, and Trends</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:41:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jack Baruth: The Toyota Prius As A Luxury Car &#124; CarEnvy.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-94211</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Baruth: The Toyota Prius As A Luxury Car &#124; CarEnvy.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-94211</guid>
		<description>[...] he chronicled the advent of fake luxury, the joys of the Porsche option catalog, and published the seminal work on the futility of comparing lap times at the Nurburgring. I’ve always looked forward to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] he chronicled the advent of fake luxury, the joys of the Porsche option catalog, and published the seminal work on the futility of comparing lap times at the Nurburgring. I’ve always looked forward to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Riegeraudi</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92996</link>
		<dc:creator>Riegeraudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92996</guid>
		<description>Your article is a total waste of time. Who cares if Nissan tweaked the car or not Porsche could do the same and the fact is that it took Porsche until now to tweak the car to produce the GT-R times. The fact is Nissan was still able to produce the times and Porcshe wasn&#039;t end of story. Your point of different days doesn&#039;t stick either since Porsche uses the Nurb as it&#039;s playground and still wasn&#039;t able to produce the same time or better.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your article is a total waste of time. Who cares if Nissan tweaked the car or not Porsche could do the same and the fact is that it took Porsche until now to tweak the car to produce the GT-R times. The fact is Nissan was still able to produce the times and Porcshe wasn&#039;t end of story. Your point of different days doesn&#039;t stick either since Porsche uses the Nurb as it&#039;s playground and still wasn&#039;t able to produce the same time or better.</p>
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		<title>By: Porsche 911 GT3 RS reportedly laps the &#8216;Ring in 7:33 &#124; Napier Auto</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92991</link>
		<dc:creator>Porsche 911 GT3 RS reportedly laps the &#8216;Ring in 7:33 &#124; Napier Auto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92991</guid>
		<description>[...] understanding showered upon me whenever I link to my pal Jack&#8217;s fascinating article on what &#8216;Ring records really mean (hint: not much). Still, what is good about Nordschleife times (and the reason why we report on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] understanding showered upon me whenever I link to my pal Jack&#8217;s fascinating article on what &#8216;Ring records really mean (hint: not much). Still, what is good about Nordschleife times (and the reason why we report on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92532</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92532</guid>
		<description>why are porsche owners so bothered ,ifs its bollocks then laugh it off.For the money it seems a great car,saw them at fighting torque,and doing very well they were too,against porsche turbos. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why are porsche owners so bothered ,ifs its bollocks then laugh it off.For the money it seems a great car,saw them at fighting torque,and doing very well they were too,against porsche turbos.</p>
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		<title>By: Mirsad Redzovic</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92140</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirsad Redzovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92140</guid>
		<description>Reply Part 4 of 4 
 
All of you criticizers have to realize that your view isn&#039;t the only one out there on the market and some people just don&#8217;t care about certain things when buying a car. If their world of owning a car is just based off of numbers, then hey, that&#039;s their world, that&#039;s what they know, and they are content with that. While others may use their cars on a track day event, others will not. Have an open mind, and try to understand why manufacturers say what they do, and do what they do. And don&#039;t be pissed when someone else does it first. 
 
Shame on your overly biased and hypocritical contradicting article. Especially speaking of having to come to a death on a track to realize something. That&#039;s disgusting, and you should know better than to speak like that. I pray that never happens. 
 
This article was a waste of my time, and I was unfortunate to have read it because my car enthusiast friend posted it on a social network. 
And in turn, I hope I have wasted your time in reading my comment because I&#039;m sure you&#039;d disagree with most of it. 
 
Happy and safe motoring to all! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply Part 4 of 4 </p>
<p>All of you criticizers have to realize that your view isn&#039;t the only one out there on the market and some people just don&rsquo;t care about certain things when buying a car. If their world of owning a car is just based off of numbers, then hey, that&#039;s their world, that&#039;s what they know, and they are content with that. While others may use their cars on a track day event, others will not. Have an open mind, and try to understand why manufacturers say what they do, and do what they do. And don&#039;t be pissed when someone else does it first. </p>
<p>Shame on your overly biased and hypocritical contradicting article. Especially speaking of having to come to a death on a track to realize something. That&#039;s disgusting, and you should know better than to speak like that. I pray that never happens. </p>
<p>This article was a waste of my time, and I was unfortunate to have read it because my car enthusiast friend posted it on a social network.<br />
And in turn, I hope I have wasted your time in reading my comment because I&#039;m sure you&#039;d disagree with most of it. </p>
<p>Happy and safe motoring to all!</p>
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		<title>By: Mirsad Redzovic</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92141</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirsad Redzovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92141</guid>
		<description>Reply Part 3 of 4 
 
Truth be told, it is used as 2 things in my eyes: Bragging rights (yes this is true and obvious) and then a general idea of what the car is capable of (which is what I look at, and &#039;hopefully&#039; most). 
I honestly don&#039;t think the 911T or GTR is better than one another, in fact, out of sheer principal, I&#039;d rather buy the GTR because of all of the boiling blood that Porsche and Porsche fans have. Too much pride will kill you, even on the track. I have no bias towards either of the cars, never have. I am a car enthusiast, and any enthusiast has no bias. If you are a Porsche enthusiast, then stick to your Porsches and stop talking about anything else. Because once you do, you become a Brand enthusiast. 
 
As for the marketing comments, again, I couldn&#039;t agree more. It just bothers me that once a company jumps in and starts testing their cars on a track that others test on, and use their numbers for different reasons, all of the sudden Porsche gets hot and bothered because the other company is matching performance but beating the price. To some people, that&#8217;s all they need to hear, they don&#039;t care about driving comfort. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply Part 3 of 4 </p>
<p>Truth be told, it is used as 2 things in my eyes: Bragging rights (yes this is true and obvious) and then a general idea of what the car is capable of (which is what I look at, and &#039;hopefully&#039; most).<br />
I honestly don&#039;t think the 911T or GTR is better than one another, in fact, out of sheer principal, I&#039;d rather buy the GTR because of all of the boiling blood that Porsche and Porsche fans have. Too much pride will kill you, even on the track. I have no bias towards either of the cars, never have. I am a car enthusiast, and any enthusiast has no bias. If you are a Porsche enthusiast, then stick to your Porsches and stop talking about anything else. Because once you do, you become a Brand enthusiast. </p>
<p>As for the marketing comments, again, I couldn&#039;t agree more. It just bothers me that once a company jumps in and starts testing their cars on a track that others test on, and use their numbers for different reasons, all of the sudden Porsche gets hot and bothered because the other company is matching performance but beating the price. To some people, that&rsquo;s all they need to hear, they don&#039;t care about driving comfort.</p>
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		<title>By: Mirsad Redzovic</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92137</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirsad Redzovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92137</guid>
		<description>Reply Part 2 of 4 
 
I believe that these testers/tuners/racers are fully aware of this, and try their best to race on a day that will give them close to the best track conditions, along with the best driver they can find, as well as trickery. (which I&#039;d bet goes on everywhere in the racing world weather we like it or not) 
 
Nordschleife lap times should never be taken personally down to the second. As many have said, there are just too many variables. If one car produces a better lap time by one second... In my eyes, they can produce damn near the same time. Only a long endurance test will really show the better vehicle at that point. 
 
So with that said, if a car repeatedly reports a lap time quicker than another&#8217;s by a margin of 10-30 seconds, obviously that test of time in endurance will be a huge gap. 
 
Now I&#039;m sure the market doesn&#039;t buy cars with the mentality of &quot;If I buy this car, it will save me this many seconds every trip to the grocery store, and driving my kids to soccor practice&quot; in mind to save time in their life. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply Part 2 of 4 </p>
<p>I believe that these testers/tuners/racers are fully aware of this, and try their best to race on a day that will give them close to the best track conditions, along with the best driver they can find, as well as trickery. (which I&#039;d bet goes on everywhere in the racing world weather we like it or not) </p>
<p>Nordschleife lap times should never be taken personally down to the second. As many have said, there are just too many variables. If one car produces a better lap time by one second&#8230; In my eyes, they can produce damn near the same time. Only a long endurance test will really show the better vehicle at that point. </p>
<p>So with that said, if a car repeatedly reports a lap time quicker than another&rsquo;s by a margin of 10-30 seconds, obviously that test of time in endurance will be a huge gap. </p>
<p>Now I&#039;m sure the market doesn&#039;t buy cars with the mentality of &quot;If I buy this car, it will save me this many seconds every trip to the grocery store, and driving my kids to soccor practice&quot; in mind to save time in their life.</p>
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		<title>By: Mirsad Redzovic</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92138</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirsad Redzovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92138</guid>
		<description>Reply  Part 1 of 4 
 
KyHurst has said exactly what was on my mind as I finished reading this article. 
I need not say too much more, so I will try my best to not repeat anything KyHurst said unless necessary. But I feel like putting my two cents in, since stomaching things isn&#039;t healthy. (So I&#039;m glad Jack let it off his chest, and I&#039;m sure he was prepared for the criticism that will follow) 
 
In the end, Jack Baruth is an upset Porsche fan. 
 
I think common sense would tell anyone that the longer a track is, the more that variables vary the lap times. Even between different cars, such as weight distribution, power plant and drivetrain. 
But given the variable buffer of  Nordschleife.. (of my guess of about 30 seconds to 1 minute depending on the car and conditions) any car to do anything near 8 minutes or even 7 is just an all around awesome car. So if track conditions are mediocre, and the driver isn&#039;t at his/her best, and an 8 minute laptime is achieved... you can safely say that worse conditions can give you an 8:30 or better conditions can give you a 7:30. (roughly speaking) 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply  Part 1 of 4 </p>
<p>KyHurst has said exactly what was on my mind as I finished reading this article.<br />
I need not say too much more, so I will try my best to not repeat anything KyHurst said unless necessary. But I feel like putting my two cents in, since stomaching things isn&#039;t healthy. (So I&#039;m glad Jack let it off his chest, and I&#039;m sure he was prepared for the criticism that will follow) </p>
<p>In the end, Jack Baruth is an upset Porsche fan. </p>
<p>I think common sense would tell anyone that the longer a track is, the more that variables vary the lap times. Even between different cars, such as weight distribution, power plant and drivetrain.<br />
But given the variable buffer of  Nordschleife.. (of my guess of about 30 seconds to 1 minute depending on the car and conditions) any car to do anything near 8 minutes or even 7 is just an all around awesome car. So if track conditions are mediocre, and the driver isn&#039;t at his/her best, and an 8 minute laptime is achieved&#8230; you can safely say that worse conditions can give you an 8:30 or better conditions can give you a 7:30. (roughly speaking)</p>
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		<title>By: Kit</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-92016</link>
		<dc:creator>Kit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 01:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-92016</guid>
		<description>I agree with the marketing angle. We don&#039;t really have to argue about the racing aspect, which in itself depends on many factors - primarily driver ability and factory/tuner support. That&#039;s why there are official race events to award teams for their efforts in beating everyone else to the finish line. 
Car makers are, after all, just big businesses. And like any business, the end goal is profit. I&#039;m in marketing myself and in my opinion, &#039;Ring lap times are nothing but marketing tools to sell their cars - period. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the marketing angle. We don&#039;t really have to argue about the racing aspect, which in itself depends on many factors &#8211; primarily driver ability and factory/tuner support. That&#039;s why there are official race events to award teams for their efforts in beating everyone else to the finish line.<br />
Car makers are, after all, just big businesses. And like any business, the end goal is profit. I&#039;m in marketing myself and in my opinion, &#039;Ring lap times are nothing but marketing tools to sell their cars &#8211; period.</p>
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		<title>By: endlsswing</title>
		<link>http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/comment-page-1/#comment-91944</link>
		<dc:creator>endlsswing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/#comment-91944</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re approaching this the wrong way. What do companies like Porsche and Nissan want? Profit. To do that you have to sell, and you better damn well market your cars like they&#039;ve been test driven by Jesus. These Nurburgring records are not for imaginary bragging rights, they&#039;re for marketing. As long as doing this will get them more attention they will continue using the Nurburgring as their standard. Nissan, Porsche, Chevrolet, and Chrysler are not the one to blame for this Nurburgring rivalry and they are not ridiculous or stupid. Nissan is genius for having used the Nurburgring to their own advantage. The one who is being ridiculous is the general public that just doesn&#039;t know any better. Frankly, they will never know because explaining such a thing is just so time consuming and pedantic that they&#039;ll have gone off and started Youtubing another lap time before you can finish. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#039;re approaching this the wrong way. What do companies like Porsche and Nissan want? Profit. To do that you have to sell, and you better damn well market your cars like they&#039;ve been test driven by Jesus. These Nurburgring records are not for imaginary bragging rights, they&#039;re for marketing. As long as doing this will get them more attention they will continue using the Nurburgring as their standard. Nissan, Porsche, Chevrolet, and Chrysler are not the one to blame for this Nurburgring rivalry and they are not ridiculous or stupid. Nissan is genius for having used the Nurburgring to their own advantage. The one who is being ridiculous is the general public that just doesn&#039;t know any better. Frankly, they will never know because explaining such a thing is just so time consuming and pedantic that they&#039;ll have gone off and started Youtubing another lap time before you can finish.</p>
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